Hong Kong Tramways Managing Director Paul Tirvaudey is on Straight Talk this week.

Tirvaudey discusses all aspects of the trams – their role as a mode of public transportation, their appeal as a tourist attraction, their status as a publicly owned company, and their significance as a cultural heritage of Hong Kong.

Check out the full transcript of TVB’s Straight Talk host Dr Eugene Chan’s interview with Paul Tirvaudey:

Chan: Welcome to Straight Talk. I'm Eugene Chan. This evening we're talking about one of our local icons, the Hong Kong Tramways, with Paul Tirvaudey, the managing director. Tivaudey is an engineer by profession and seven years ago joined the RATP group, the state-owned enterprise that operates public transport systems in France and owns our tramway. As chief of staff to the group CEO, Paul spearheaded the preparation for the opening of the Paris bus market to competition, so he is well-placed to tell us how the tramway can provide a track of success for Hong Kong. Welcome, Paul!

Tirvaudey: Good evening, Eugene!

Chan: Paul, as Hong Kong people call tramways, "ding ding" has been operating in Hong Kong for more than a century. And it's one of our large-scale transportation, the first one and has been carrying generations of Hong Kong people over 100 years. So, what is the tram's ridership situation right now? And how does it compare to previous years?

Tirvaudey: Okay, we are gradually recovering from the COVID period. At the moment, we transport between 140,000 and 150,000 passengers every day, which is still lower than pre-COVID. But extremely significant compared with other tram operations in the world. It also represents more than 10 percent of Hong Kong Island's population who take the tram every day. And out of these 150,000 passengers, we transport 80 percent of local people and 20 percent of visitors and tourists.

Chan: Right. So, in a rapidly evolving city like Hong Kong, why do you believe trams should still continue to operate and do you still believe it has a place in the 21st century?

Tirvaudey: It definitely has a place in the 21st century. Tram is an icon of Hong Kong. Of course, but even as a public transportation system, Tram has its three key features that make it a key part of Hong Kong public transportation system. First of all, trams are green. They have been running electric since the beginning since 1904. So, no need to have some greenwashing or green marketing every time one takes a tram. It is positive for the environment. Secondly, trams are convenient with one stop every 250 meters. They are a very easy way to hop on, hop off along the tramline. And for short trips, trams are even faster from point A to point B than the MTR. We proved it with a YouTube influencer a few months ago. And third, trams are affordable – HK$3 a ride for adults, HK$1.5 a ride for children and even HK$1.3 a ride for seniors aged over 65. It is less than the HK$2 concessionary scheme at the moment, and it is key for us as a kind of social company to deliver a good transportation system to Hong Kong people at an affordable price.

Chan: I'm sure many viewers would be surprised to know that actually, it takes quicker than the MTR.

Tirvaudey: Yes.

Chan: Something you just mentioned.

Tirvaudey: Yes, exactly.

Chan: Can you elaborate on that a little?

Tirvaudey: For short trips, I mean for very short trips along the tram line because to take the MTR it takes some time to go to the platform and walking time, sometimes the platforms are quite remote from the access points in the streets. So, the tram stations are very well located in the streets. Every 250 meters. So, for very short trips from point A to point B it may be faster to take the tram. Actually, we proved it with a YouTube influencer called Dong Feng Shing last year. He had a race against one of our drivers, tram drivers and our tram driver took the tram, Dong Feng Shing took the MTR and our driver won the race.

Chan: Oh really? So, what other strategies can the Tramways use to enhance while we call it an appeal to attract and sustain a broader base of riders?

Tirvaudey: Actually, we developed many different services, based on the tram of course. The point is to be as convenient as regular as possible into a quality transportation service. But we also developed over the years the tram parties. Hong Kong people can enjoy the trams and celebrate, I mean, special events like birthdays, anniversaries while riding the trams. And it's very, very popular. It's proven to be very popular in Hong Kong.

Chan: So, how will you recommend Hong Kong people to enjoy tramways in today's context?

Tirvaudey: They can enjoy it. As I said on a regular daily basis they can take the tram and enjoy the views of Hong Kong, the sounds of Hong Kong, the smells of Hong Kong, for example, they can smell the dried seafood. They can have party trams; so we have the party tram called "Tram No. 18" which is the most premium tram that we have with leather seats, with the aircon, with the toilet cabin as well.

Chan: Really?

Tirvaudey: Yes, definitely. It has been in service for two years right now. And it is a very luxurious way to have tram rides in the cities, with friends or with colleagues. We have regular party trams for more, let's say, regular parties and birthdays. More casual, I would say, and we also have the Tramoramic, which is a special sightseeing tram, designed for tourists riding on the tram line since 2016. And with several tours a day from Western markets to Causeway Bay and back.

Chan: When you mentioned the word party trams, I'm sure many of us would have seen on the Island that, having parties on top. How many people can it carry and how popular is it right now?

Tirvaudey: They can carry, let's say, between 20 to 30 people, which makes it a very right way to party. They are extremely popular. Actually party trams are our only activity which performs better now than pre-COVID. I guess Hong Kong people are happy to celebrate together and to enjoy very cheerful moments with friends and families. And it proves very and very popular. Actually party trams are booked several weeks, several months in advance so if you want to book a party tram better to prepare for it early. And for us, it's very meaningful to deliver these very positive moments to Hong Kong people.

Chan: Right, just now, Paul, you mentioned that like 20 percent of your riders are tourists. So, how would you have made extra efforts which attracted tourists and showcase our trams as a unique cultural and historical attraction within the city?

Tirvaudey: Actually, as I mentioned, we have this tourist tram, the Tramoramic, it is specially designed for tourists with an upper balcony with audio guides in eight different languages for the tourist to discover the city. So, it is part of the Hong Kong experience. Of course the tourists can also take regular trams to enjoy the lines and we have some special operations actually at the moment we are working on the nightlife operations to have night tours in the trams. I mean it is consistent with the strategy of the Tourism Board and the city's strategy to develop tourism and to foster the nightlife. We also brought our teams as a part of it. They’ll attend some fairs next week. We attend fairs in Taipei and in Macao, for example, with the tourism board to make trams a part of packages delivered by travel agencies all over the world to enjoy a full Hong Kong experience.

Chan: Right have you also been able to tap into what we call sort of Instagram chasing tourists. Say from the mainland like what we call the "Little Red Book”. Have you tried that as well?

Tirvaudey: Yes, definitely. We are trying to ... actually there is a very popular spot in Kennedy town which attracts a lot of visitors ... advice recommended by the Little Red Book and most of them take the tram to go to this spot. So, we try to have this kind of Instagrammable spots and to work with influencers as well, KOL from the Chinese mainland to make trams as a popular destination for tourism from all over the world and the mainland in particular.

Chan: And I was told that it will be your ... the Tramway's 120th anniversary coming up. Any particular plans for this special event?

Tirvaudey: Definitely. Actually 120 is a very special number for us. Of course 12 decades. Two cycles in the Chinese calendar. We have 120 tram stops and our tram 120 is a very iconic tram. It is the only post-World World II tram that we have and it is extremely popular for tram fans and from experts. So, 120 for us is a very important moment for the company. And we are preparing a celebration because it will happen this summer in July to make it a special moment for Hong Kong people as well and to have the Hong Kong community to celebrate with us this special anniversary. So, we are preparing of course for the official ceremony. We will have pop-up stores in the malls alongside the tram line. And we are designing some collaborations with other Hong Kong icons to have some merchandising and exciting events to make it a cheerful moment for the whole Hong Kong community.

Chan: So, it sounds like the tramways will definitely be a part of sort of Hong Kong reviving Hong Kong's connection to the world, isn't it?

Tirvaudey: Exactly. Actually, we want to play our part to the reverse, I would say of Hong Kong post-COVID, to the development of Hong Kong.

Chan: Right, you know that in Hong Kong our community in Hong Kong people can be more involved with sort of daily lives in Hong Kong. How is the tram ... I mean your operation gets in connection with the people, the Hong Kong people? Do you get feedback from them?

Tirvaudey: Yeah, definitely. We have, of course, 24 hours a day customer service to get feedback from our passengers. We collaborate with the community with District Councils, with different NGOs or associations. Also to have some meaningful partnerships to help the less favored people and to make sure that trams also have a social dimension to help the community. What is also very important for us is to share the tram heritage, to pass the tram heritage to the young generations and to make them love the trams as well. And that's why we set up a sister company of Hong Kong Tramways called Tram Plus to deliver STEM, so science, technology, engineering and mathematics courses, to students and secondary school students. And through partnerships with the Hong Kong University for Science and Technologies, for example, the MIT innovation of Hong Kong using the trams as a way for the young generation to learn about STEM.

Chan: Thank you for engaging our youth as well. One last question before the break. What is your safety record and how safe is it?

Tirvaudey: I mean, trams are very safe. For public transportation operators, as I always tell my team, safety is a core priority. If we are not safe, it's useless to develop partnerships or commercial activities or whatever, safety is first. We have a track record, a positive track record of safety. The accident trend has been decreasing over these years. We are working a lot either on improving the technical system of the tram, or on management and let's say disciplinary, training actions to make sure that our drivers drive the people safely on Hong Kong Island.

Chan: All right. Okay. Let's take a break now. But viewers stay tuned. We will be right back for more insights into our tramway.

Chan: Thank you for staying with us on Straight Talk. We have been finding out more about one of Hong Kong's iconic symbols, our Tramway, from managing director Paul Tirvaudey. So, Paul, in the first part you have given a lot of information about our trams, and I am sure the viewers really appreciate the background information. But I must ask you, with Hong Kong we are getting more of an ageing population. And are there any initiatives to improve the accessibility for passengers with disabilities or even mobility challenges?

Tirvaudey: I would say it is extremely difficult for us to … I mean Tramways, tram system is a very old in heritage system. There are steps to enter the tram, there are many steps. But we try to improve the accessibility of the trams. Actually we reviewed the tram design in the new generations of trams. The internal design has been reviewed to make it more convenient, especially for elderly. Any time we can, we install also some devices to help them getting into the trams. We are also working closely with the Transport Department, Highways Department, to improve the accessibility of some tram stops, which prove to be a bit difficult to access for elderly and disabled people. So, we are doing what we can, taking into account the fact that these are not modern trams, so cannot have platforms at ground level.

Chan: Right. And I understand that you have your own workshop.

Tirvaudey: Yes.

Chan: I think you told me in the break earlier that something that we, Hong Kong people, can be very proud of. Do we make our trams in Hong Kong or are they imported?

Tirvaudey: Actually the trams are made in Hong Kong. And one of my surprises when I relocated to Hong Kong one and a half year ago was that a lot of Hong Kong people do not know that the trams are actually manufactured in Hong Kong, on Hong Kong Island, in our own workshop in Sai Ying Pun. We have lots of very … 120 skilled technicians and engineers, who order the parts and manufacture between 4-6 new tram cars every year.

Chan: Really?

Tirvaudey: And they take care of the trams from the design part, manufacturing part, they maintain the tram, they take care of the whole tram system. So, the trams are really a pure Hong Kong product, besides being, of course, the Hong Kong symbol.

Chan: So, you definitely have some footprint industrially for Hong Kong as well.

Tirvaudey: Definitely.

Chan: So, what are your main challenges? I mean thank you for sharing with us the background, we have our own system of people making it. It has been a very unique and icon definitely. So, what are the challenges that you face today and how are you going to address them?

Tirvaudey: I would identify three main types of challenges. The first one being about the workforce. We have a very loyal staff, and especially the front-line staff, we have drivers, technicians, extremely dedicated to operating, maintaining the trams and this icon of Hong Kong. The question being how to renew when these people retire, how to renew our workforce, hire our young people, young generations, and making sure that they stay long enough in the company, to also bring that contribution to the company. This is the challenge in Hong Kong today in all the public transport companies, and frontline staff, companies meet this problem.

Chan: Yes. I mean the viewers that we have on Straight Talk know that Hong Kong’s government is trying to get more talents to come to Hong Kong. And I am sure your industry will face exactly the same challenge as well.

Tirvaudey: Yes.

Chan: So, what do you do to attract young people to get into this industry? What are the attractions?

Tirvaudey: Actually we have a comprehensive action plan to tackle this issue. The first thing, of course, is about the salary. It is about paying our people decent salaries, and actually they work a lot, this is they are not doing a very easy jobs. So, we significantly increase the salaries about, the past 2 years, more than 20 percent salary increase for frontline workers. But not everything is about salaries. We also work on the working conditions. How to make sure that our facilities improve the comfort of our facilities, and so that our workers have a very pleasant working experience. And we are also trying to improve our emperor branding because some people could think that tramways is a very old company, running for 120 years, maybe a kind of dusty company, which is not the case. First of all, we are subsidiary of an international group. And then we are a very, let's say, flexible and autonomous company. We only have 500 employees, and I would define us as a 120-year start-up. Every time people have ideas, projects, there are no multiple layers to decide what we will do, we can be very flexible, very fast to decide and to execute the project. So, for people with ideas, energies, and who want to execute meaningful projects in Hong Kong, we are definitely the right company. And this is what we need to share even more to the potential employees.

Chan: Yes, of course. Tramways is part of our urban transportation system. And we know that we must stay ahead in increasingly digital world. I mean, how are you going to integrate with future, like smart mobility and smart city initiatives because this is very important to keep abreast with the rest of Hong Kong?

Tirvaudey: First of all, we are very proud to be part of Hong Kong’s public transportation system, which is one of the best in the world, according to all the rankings that have been published. We are walking on digitalizing the trams further, digitalizing the trams, making sure that, of course, we keep the appearance of trams as they are, that is what Hong Kong people and visitors love them. But introducing more technology in trams. So, for example, we have a project called Smart Ding Ding project, to be able to locate in real time the trams, delivering better passenger information, and better regulating the line. But we could also integrate with other stakeholders in the framework of the smart city blueprint. And for example, I think we have much to do about traffic light management, and how to introduce some AI video recognition for the traffic light management, which would help to significantly improve the performance and regularity of the trams alongside the lines. So, these last issues and topics, we are glad to work on with the transport department and all the stakeholders involved.

Chan: Right. Have you ever considered expanding your services? Because at the moment, the tramways are basically on the northern part of the Hong Kong Island.

Tirvaudey: Yes.

Chan: And it has been like that for decades, or over 120 years. Any possibility of expansions? Even new routes or anything like that?

Tirvaudey: Actually there have been many ideas over the past century to expand the tram line. In the 1920s, there used to be a project to build a similar tramline on the Kowloon side.

Chan: Really?

Tirvaudey: It never happened. Ten years ago, our company suggested to have a tramline, to build a tramline on a modern tramline in Kai Tak. And right now, we looked carefully, we read carefully the Hong Kong infrastructure blueprint released by the Hong Kong government in December. And it may seem that Hong Kong government could be looking for other operators to operate new lines in Hong Kong. Let’s say intermediary transportation lines between bus stops and the MTR. So, more capacity than the buses, but lighter than MTR. So, if there are tenders in the future to operate these lines, we may be interested in competing, mixing our local knowledge of Hong Kong Tramways and the expertise from our mother company as well.

Chan: I mean your company, being a French company, why would you invest in Hong Kong? And also into this 120-year-old startup, as you said, of part of Hong Kong’s icon?

Tirvaudey: That is a very good question. Actually, I may share a few words about our mother company because I guess most of the viewers do not know about RATP. So, RATP is the Paris public transport operator, the third public transport operator in the world. And besides operating metro, buses, and tramways in Paris, we have operations in 15 countries around the world, in Asia Pacific. Apart from Hong Kong, we are present in the Philippines and in Australia as well, where we won a tender for driverless metro line in Sydney last year. So, for us, it makes a lot of sense for us to be in Hong Kong. As I mentioned, Hong Kong is one of the best public transportation network in the world, so being part of it is meaningful. Making sure that we deliver a good and perform our public transportation service also means a lot in terms of performance because Hong Kong people, Hong Kong authorities are very demanding. So, the fact that we match the expectations is also a proof for us that we are able to have high standards, in terms of public transportation. And the trams are a very unique transportation system for public transport lovers. They all know about trams actually, the Hong Kong trams are in the top 10, I would say, of public transport operations in the world. So, being … we think that we can contribute to modernizing this icon and bringing some of our expertise to make it last for many more years.

Chan: Right, because when you say Hong Kong’s public transportation, I am sure people would think of the taxi, mini buses, buses, people walk, the MTR. There are so many of it in such a small place. Is it profitable to run the tram business?

Tirvaudey: That is a very good question. And my shareholder is also very careful about this. Actually of course, we are not a financial company or whatever, we don't do it to achieve a very high profit. And public transport sector is very competitive. Still, we have been slightly profitable over the years. And even during the COVID period, we managed to sustain the operation. So, actually at the moment, Tramways do not run losses. We operate with a slight profit, which we break even. And this is very important for us to sustain the company and to keep investing in the assets with a very long-term perspective.

Chan: Paul, I am going to ask you a last question. Our Chief Executive, John Lee, is always encouraging us to tell our overseas friends a very good Hong Kong story. And what strategies will the Tramways be if I want to effectively showcase the stories and heritage of Hong Kong to the rest of the world, what would you do?

Tirvaudey: Actually as I mentioned, we are part of the, let's say, Tourism Board team to showcase Hong Kong’s icons to the rest of the world, and attract more tourists to Hong Kong. So, we are playing our part, of course, in a very much larger team. As a French company, as a subsidiary of a French company, we are also communicating a lot about Hong Kong Tramways on the social media. Every time I have an event at the French Chamber or with French companies, I share a lot about the business or the federal board business environment in Hong Kong.

Chan Right.

Tirvaudey: These are the type of actions that we do. Of course, the most important is to make sure that we take care of the tram system, and that we offer quality services for the locals and for the tourists to attract them.

Chan: Thank you, Paul. I am afraid that's all the time for.  From its humble beginnings to its present day status as a cultural icon, the Hong Kong Tramways has helped shape the vibrant tapestry of our city. Today's discussion has underscored the importance of preserving this legacy, while embracing innovation and adaptation.

As a Turkish author said, “Cities who do not have trams always look less literary, less poetic, and less mysterious.” So, let's keep the spirit of the tram alive for generations to come.  Have a good evening and see you next week!